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Email to UK Guardian re Iraq War


UPDATED WITH GUARDIAN REPLIES BELOW

RE:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/28/dont-discuss-iraq-war-william-hague?INTCMP=SRCH

Dear Guardian editors

Nick Hopkins wrote that the war

“…led to the death of almost 200 British troops and tens of thousands
of Iraqis.”

It is beyond any rational dispute that the Iraq war caused over a half
million Iraqi deaths.

There were 2 scientific studies published that examined the death toll
from the war up until the end of June of 2006. The Lancet study
estimated a death toll of 650,000 Iraqis.  The Iraqi government (in
conjunction with the WHO ) published a study in the New England Journal
of Medicine (NEJM) that examined the same period. It published death
rates which correspond to a death toll of 400,000 (as confirmed by the
lead author of that study).

Again, of the end of June 2006, the best available evidence was that
between 400,000-650,000 Iraqis had died because of the war. This
includes Iraqi civilians and combatants. It includes deaths from
violence and all other forms of increased mortality that resulted from
the war. Of course, the war did not end in June of 2006. It raged for
several more years.

As of June 2006, Iraq Body Count (IBC) tallied about 50,000 Iraqi
CIVILIAN deaths from war related violence alone. IBC’s numbers would
more than double by the end of 2011. Similarly doubling the scientific
estimates of the war’s death toll yields 800,000-1,300,000 Iraqi
deaths. It must also stressed that IBC

1) Made no attempt to count Iraqi combatant deaths

2) Made no attempt to count increased civilian mortality from causes
other than violence

3) Used a methodology heavily reliant on media reports and that
inevitably missed a high proportion of the already limited category of
deaths that it sought to count. IBC has argued that it may have missed
up to half the deaths it sought to count. The lead author of the Lancet
study, Les Roberts, has disputed that claim as far too conservative. 
Even if one sides with IBC in that debate, there is no doubt a high
proportion of the subset of war related deaths that IBC tallied were
missed.
 

It bears repeating, it is beyond any rational dispute that the Iraq war
caused over a half million Iraqi deaths. There is a great deal of
uncertainty about the proportion of those deaths that resulted from
violence, about the proportion of deaths that were combatants. There is
certainly room for debate about exactly HOW FAR above the half million
mark the death toll rose. None of these uncertainties justify Nick
Hopkins’ outrageous statement that “tens of thousands of Iraqis” died
because of the war.

If a foreign power invaded and occupied the UK, what would you consider
a reasonable way to estimate deaths that resulted from it? Would you
disregard British combatants who died? Would you not count British
civilians who died from increased incidence of disease and deceased access
to health care, food and medicine?

Joe Emersberger

[1] The Lancet study
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)69491-9/abstract

The Iraqi Gov/ WHO study
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa0707782

In this article, Mohamed Ali, lead author of study above, says 397,000
war related deaths derived from data in study above
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/11/iraq-math-war

in this document, IBC states that “the worst one could say of IBC is
that its count could be low by a factor of two”
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/reference/pdf/a_defence_of_ibc.pdf

THE GUARDIAN REPLIES

Dear Mr Emersberger, 

We have been around this question many times before, as you can see 

from an Open Door column 5 years ago and a recent data blog. And I am 

sure you probably read them at the time. 





http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jan/03/iraq-body-count-report-data 



http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jan/03/iraq-body-count-report-data 



It is not beyond all rational dispute that "that the Iraq war caused 

over a half million Iraqi deaths." It may be true but we don't know for 

certain because it is a disputed figure. However, what is beyond all 

rational dispute is that "tens of thousands of Iraqis died". What 

cannot be said for certain is how many tens of thousands – we may not 

know that for some years. 





Best wishes 



Chris Elliott

MY REPLY

Mr. Elliot. 

Your resposne is astounding. 

The Iraqi Government (that is the Iraqi government under US occupation 

I should stress) publishes a study in the NEJM that corressponds to 

400,000 deaths as of June 2006 – as confirmed by the lead author of the 

study – and you claim that "It is not beyond all rational dispute 

that "that the Iraq war caused over a half million Iraqi deaths." 



That study alone exposes the extreme irrationality of what you wrote to 

me. 



You may as well dispute that the war contiuned after June 2006 or claim 

that Iraqi combatants who died are not really Iraqis – or not really 

human. 



Your denial buries the death toll of the war and therefore helps to 

facilitate future slaughters – in fact already has. 



Joe Emersberger

ELLIOT  REPLIES AGAIN

Dear Mr Emersberger, 

I am not "denying" that more than half a million Iraqis died – I just 

can't prove it beyond all rational doubt. Whereas there is worldwide 

agreement that tens of thousands of people have died. 

Best wishes 

Chris Elliott

MY REPLY

Why not say "thousands died in Iraq" then or "hundreds" if your 

standard is an order of magnitude on which there is "worldwide 

agreement" – and not the most plausible based on the best available 

evidence? 

Does that apply to official enemies too, or only when flak is possible 

from cheerleaders for the US/UK backed wars? 

Did Saddam Huseein kill "thousands"? 

Was Mao responsible for the deaths of "hundreds of thousands"? 

Woud there not be "worldwide agreement" that those orders of magnitude 

were not technically false? 



As the Media Lens editors once put it, it is breathtaking to behold how 

scientific studies become weak, pitiful and unreliable things in the 

eyes of journalists when the findings conflict with Power..  

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